       TRAVELLER Digest 34

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Fleets of the Imperium (Pt. 1) by John V Banagan <jbanagan@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
  2) Imperial Fleets Info by John V Banagan <jbanagan@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
  3) Supplements for TNE? by John V Banagan <jbanagan@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
  4) mixed by Joni M Virolainen <jonimv@evitech.fi>
  5) Re: Alright, l right, all right...  by Seth "the Lesser" <slb22@columbia.edu>
  6) Water use for fuel & catapults by Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>
  7) Re: water  by Seth "the Lesser" <slb22@columbia.edu>
  8) Re: Virus vs. deckers  by Seth "the Lesser" <slb22@columbia.edu>
  9) Virus vs. deckers by "Peter H. Brenton" <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
 10) Infection by Virus through DNI by dthompson@cel.cummins.com (Thompson)
 11) Re: water by ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu (Joseph Heck)
 12) Responce to GDW by alvin plummera <plummera@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 23:33:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: John V Banagan <jbanagan@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
To: TML Submissions <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Fleets of the Imperium (Pt. 1)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9409072357.D9395-0100000@uclink2.berkeley.edu>


Hi,

I needed some help developing the Imperial Fleets in my campaign to help 
flesh out the TNE history. I've listed some information on fleets. Would 
anyone care to venture what would happen (has happened) to them since the 
Rebellion started (ended)? 

I hope to purchase Batteriders and maybe set up scenarios to 
discover/play out possible outcomes of fleet actions. Also, for the 
Vampire Fleets since the Virus sourcebook is suppose to come out, maybe 
discuss what fleets fell pray to vampireism...

Anyways, here's what I have. I've taken all the information from 
Rebellion Sourcebook and complied it here for ease of discussion. Please 
critique when possible. Thanks!

John Banagan [jbanagan@uclink2.berkeley.edu]

Fleets of the Imperium (c. 1116)

Fleets aare organized as follows:

Numbered Fleets are composed of squadrons (2-10 squadrons per fleet based 
on its mission). Each squadron is composed of 10-50 ships. Fleets 
therefore may range from 50-200 ships.

Named Fleets are composed of several number fleets and are named after 
the sector they are from.

In some circumstances, fleets are named beased on their mission (eg. 
Lucan's Vengeance Fleet or Dulinor's Loyal Fleet).

There are 2 basic fleet types, ships of the line and reserve fleets. Ships 
of the line are numbered 1-999 (there are approximately 320 numbered 
fleets), reserve fleets are numbered 1001-1999 (there are approximately 
320 fleets). Basically, for every ship of the line fleet, there will be a 
resrve fleet with the same corresponding number except the numbered 
reserve fleet will have 'reserve fleet' after its numerical 
identification (eg. 212th and 1212th reserve fleet both at Regina). For 
simplicity's sake, I have only listed the line fleets (although the 
reserve fleet is at the same location).  

The alpha (although not part of fleet designation) refers to the 
subsector location.

The Mora Fleet 
--------------
212th (at Regina)(B), 213th(C), 214th(D), 193rd(F), 18th(G), 23rd(H), 
43rd(K), 73rd (at Mora)(L), 208th(M), 100th(O), 207th(P)

The Deneb Fleet
---------------
194th(A), 213th(B), 151st(C), 61st(D), 195th(E), 257th(F), 125th(G), 
88th(H), 196th(I), 258th (at Deneb)(J), 154th(K), 183rd(L), 193rd(M), 
260th(N), 55th(O), 184th(P) 

The Corridor Fleet
------------------
31st(A), 30th(A), 56th (at Depot)(B), 58th (at Depot)(B), 60th(C), 105th(C), 
133rd(D), 134th(D), 32nd(E), 33rd(E), 59th(F), 153rd(G), 255th(G), 214th(H), 
215th(H), 213th(J)

The Vland Fleet
---------------
245th(A), 2467th(B), 247th(C), 251st(D), 29th(E), 71st(F), 13th (at 
Vland)(G), 216th(H), 34th(I), 87th(J), 182nd(K), 241st(L), 54th(M), 
181st(N), 212th(O), 244th(P)

The Lishun Fleet
----------------
15th(A), 28th(B), 35th(C), 57th(D), 155th(E), 152nd(F), 140th(G), 99th (at 
Tephany)(H), 178th(I), 229th(J), 248th(K), 249th(L), 253rd(M), 255th(N), 
252nd(O), 250th(P)

The Antares Fleet
-----------------
260th(A), 270th(B), 280th(C), 290th(D), 14th(E), 84th(F), 156th(G), 
227th(H), 36th(I), 104th(J), 157th (at Antares)(K), 226th(L), 72nd(M), 
141st(N), 225th(O), 228th(P)

The Empty Quarter Fleet
-----------------------
53rd(I), 86th(J), 161(J), 158th (at Nulinad)(M), 306th(N), 307th(O)

The Trojan Reach Fleet
----------------------
201st(C), 202nd(D), 203rd(G), 204th (at Tobia)(H)

The Reft Sector Fleet
---------------------
19th(A), 74th(B), 128th(E), 130th (at Cyril)(P)

The Gushemege Fleet
-------------------
272nd(B), 211th(C), 142nd(D), 271st (at Usdiki)(F), 231st(G), 126th(H), 
232nd(I), 38th(J), 89th(K), 127th(L), 37th(M), 39th(N), 90th(O), 101st(P)

The Dagudashaag Fleet
---------------------
5th(A), 186th(B), 205th(C), 187th(D), 50th(E), 188th(F), 206th(G), 
185th(H), 75th(I), 190th(J), 209th(K), 219th(L), 83rd(M), 159th(N), 218th 
(at Medurma)(O), 230th(P)

The Core Fleet
--------------
267th(A), 51st(B), 69th(C), 76th(D), 200th(E), 3rd(F), 1st (at 
Capital)(G), 309th (at Capital)(G), 310th (at Capital)(G), 311th (at 
Capital)(G), 312th (at Capital)(G), 4th(H), 217th(I), 160th(J), 2nd(K), 
274th(L), 210th (at Reference)(M), 150th(N), 132nd(O), 273rd(P)

The Fornast Fleet
-----------------
16th(A), 27th(B), 148th(C), 149th(D), 70th(E), 98th(F), 242nd(G), 
243rd(H), 121st(I), 122nd(J), 123rd(K), 254th(L), 263rd(M), 264th(N), 
265th(O), 237th (at Shumduur)(P)

The Ley Sector Fleet
--------------------
17th(A), 52nd (at Dukh)(B), 124th(E), 129th(F), 191st(G), 238th(I), 
261st(J), 262nd(K), 192nd(M), 267th(N), 266th(O)

The Verge Fleet
---------------
42nd(C), 44th(D), 46th(G), 143rd (at Tripolis)(H), 275th(L)

The Illelish Fleet
------------------
7th(A), 40th(B), 91st(C), 166th(D), 167th(E), 179th (at Dlan)(F), 
168th(G), 177th(H), 233rd(I), 276th(J), 180th(K), 179th(L), 300th(M), 
301st(N), 320nd(O), 304th(P)

The Zarushagar Fleet
--------------------
41st(A), 102nd(B), 239th(C), 163rd(D), 236th(E), 9th(F), 240th(G), 
164th(H), 139th(I), 278th (at Liasdi)(J), 62nd(K), 277th(L), 175th(O), 
279th(O), 165th(P)

The Massila Fleet
-----------------
282nd (at Kaggushus)(A), 162nd(B), 147th(C), 199th(D), 281st(E), 63rd(F), 
64th(G), 220th(H), 259th(I), 6th(J), 65th(K), 138th(L), 107th(M), 
106th(N), 66th(O), 146th(P)

The Delphi Fleet
----------------
12th(A), 25th(B), 67th(C), , 8th(E), 223rd(F), 117th(I), 119th (at 
Anaxias)(J), 128th(M), 81st(N), 137th(O), 145th(P)

The Glimmerdrift Reaches Fleet
------------------------------
268th(C), 85th(M), 120th(N)

The Reaver's Deep Fleet
-----------------------
174th(G), 47th(H), 173rd(K), 78th(L)

The Daibei Fleet
----------------
173rd (at Warinir)(A), 172nd(B), 45th(C), 289th(D), 77th(E), 92nd(F), 
10th(G), 234th(H), 48th(I), 110th(J), 176th(K), 283rd(L), 284th(M), 
285th(N), 111th(O), 286th(P)

The Diaspora Fleet
------------------
298th (at Libert)(A), 135th(B), 198th(C), 93rd(D), 94th(E), 95th(F), 
297th(G), 170th(H), 11th(I), 21st(J), 22nd(K), 169th(L), 49th(M), 
136th(N), 299th(O), 103rd(P)

The Old Expanses Fleet
----------------------
24th (at Vaward)(A), 112th(B), 144th(C), 222nd(D), 197th(E), 82nd(F), 
113th(G), 269th(H), 287th(I), 288th(J), 235th(K), 305th(L), 108th(M), 
108th(N), 308th(O)

The Hinter Worlds Fleet
-----------------------
224th(A), 314th(B)

The Magyar Fleet
----------------
20th(D), 109th(H), 967th(L)

The Solomani Rim Fleet
----------------------
295th(A), 68th(B), 79th(C), 293rd(D), 292nd(E), 296th(F), 294th(G), 
291st(H), 221st(I), 115th (at Dingir)(J), 116th (at Terra)(K), 97th (at 
Terra)(K), 114th(L)

The Alpha Crucis Fleet
----------------------
80th(A), 313th(B)



How ships are organized in fleets:

               Named Fleet
               |         |
  Numbered Fleet         Numbered Reserve Fleet
               |         |
Regular Squadron         Colonial Squadron
               |         |
            Ship         Ship


Squadron Types
--------------

BatRons (Battle Squadrons): Main Battleships and Battleriders
CruRons (Cruiser Squadrons): Fleet and Planetary support ships
ScoutRons (Scout Squadrons): Scout vessels
AssaultRons (Assault Squadrons): Troop transports
TankRons (tanker Squadrons): Fleet material support vessels

System Defense Vessels are not considered part of Imperial fleets because 
they are not jump capable and do not play a major role in the Imperial 
Navy. However they do play an important role in system defense and are 
the sole responsibility of the system they are protecting.



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 23:36:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: John V Banagan <jbanagan@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
To: TML Submissions <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Imperial Fleets Info
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9409072325.E9395-0100000@uclink2.berkeley.edu>


Hi,

Does anyone have any suggestions on what ships would compose an Imperial 
Squadron? I'll post some of my own suggestions for this topic later. 
Also, I'll try and put some items out on Zhodani and Aslan fleet 
formations. I'm not too sure about Hiver or K'Kree fleets, and for I dubt 
a centralized military for Vargrs to have sector fleets like the 
Imperium/Regency has.

John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 23:39:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: John V Banagan <jbanagan@uclink2.berkeley.edu>
To: TML Submissions <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Supplements for TNE?
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9409072359.F9395-0100000@uclink2.berkeley.edu>


Hi,

Does GDW plan on producing supplements for TNE such as the Alien 
supplements by DGP or perhaps Vehicles 101 or Fighting Ships based on 
FFS? I know there are a lot, and I'm too lazy to convert them!  =P
Thanks.

John

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 10:10:30 +0200 (EET)
From: Joni M Virolainen <jonimv@evitech.fi>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: mixed
Message-ID: <199409080707.DAA10555@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

 PSUAlum@aol.com  writes:
>How many TMLers are involved w. RC campaigns?  If any how involved are
>the politics of the member worlds of the RC in the campaign?

My campaign is situated in RC. So far only political thing that my players
were involved, was when they returned from scouting mission from Seliga.
They were hired to escort and help one corporate suit of Tetsuno industries
from Aubaine to explore Seliga. Tetsuno had paid to get the "rights" to 
exploit the Seliga. Everything went quite smoothly for a while until they
noticed that they were not there alone. 

One member of the ruling class from Schall had also sent a private scavenger
team to Seliga. That team was quite ruthless and tried (of course) to kill
the PCs. Party got 2 prisoners and left the planet and returned to Aubaine.
There the council judged that member of the ruling class from Schall.
There Centrist wanted to imprison him, bet Federalists set him free but
sentenced him to get his workers from Seliga. He was also sentenced to be
cast away from his political position.

So nothing major.
------------------

 Roger Myhre <myhre@oslonett.no> writes:

>This "mind-transmitting" process may be done in two ways.

>1. The "mind" is copied and sent out on its own. The physical operator
>disconnects and awaits a signal from the deck when the task is done.

>2. The mind is not copied but "disconnected" from the body. Note that
>the disconnection is not fully, but enough to improve response time in
>the net and still ensure that the body fuctions are active. A cut
>of the link between the host and the operator will surely spell
>braindamage or some other kind of injuries.

>If the "mind " is sent out to explore the cyberspace, the host computer
>must have software to allow this kind of communication protocol. The
>Virus will most effectively protect itself by infecting this software
>or deleting it all together. Thus you only got the old fashioned
>keyboard/screen communication with the host. Maybe neither that if the
>Virus decides to disconnect those too by routing new paths in the
>silicon/whatever material used for chips.

How about using psionic computer empathy with connection to computer via DNI?

------------------------------

Ewan Qiubell writes:
 
>>while decking into virus infected cyperspace would be suicidal.

rancke@diku.dk writes:

>How do you know? We have no real idea about how a true omputer/brain
>interface would work. That leaves us delightfully free to define our
>own rules to provide maximum fun and entertainment. Unlike with weapons,
>where we can reasonably extrapolate from know data (and where we come
>up with instant-death-no-saving-throw pocket cannons at TLs only slightly
>beyond what we have today (or even AT our present-day TL)) we really
>don't know enough about how such an interface would work out to rule out
>anything.

>So instead of arguing about the difference between chemical and electronic
>reaction times I'd simply ask one question: What is the most fun? A virus 
>that makes decking totally impossible or one that makes decking dangerous,
>but survivable?

>Assuming you agree that the second option has considerable more appeal
>than the first, I'd suggest that we turn the argument around and approach
>it from the other direction: Given that we want human deckers to have a
>fighting chance against the Virus, what rules and assumptions do we have
>to make? 

>You know, this could be a whole new approach to virus-proofing and virus-
>protecting your systems. A computer/human combo with the human providing
>the intelligence that we're told is the Virus' main advantage over 
>conventional computers. Gives a whole new luster to the profession of
>Computer Operator.

I think you are right. Maybe we can start to think about it. Besides I think
the critic I have got is just a healthy critic and thanks for your support!!!

Let's assume that we can stand against the attacks of Virus at least for a
short period of time (I have understood that all agree so far). And as it is
known for centuries offence is the best defence, so the decker have to try
and KILL the Virus. That should be relatively easy at least in theory.

As we all know, Virus was never meant to mutate, but it did so anyway. Why so
happened? It happened because it was not yet totally complete product.
What causes the mutations? Unstable "genetic" material and possibility to
make a new generation very quickly. I suppose that "genetic" laws of
biological 
life forms aply more or less to Virus also. Therefore almost every mutation
is lethal. Only *VERY* small fraction of all mutations is a positive change.
In the light of this I dare say that if a decker changes the circuit of the
Virus, he/she/it mutates the genome of the Virus therefore killing it!

Now, how to change the circuitry? Easy, just use the same way as the Virus.
Use electrical current to alter the circuitry. I believe that as someone
wrote that Virus could send electrical shock through the cable and DNI to
decker
then I suppose it works the other way also. Besides I think the Hivers have
studied the Virus long enough to know how it alters the circuitry.

How about that?

------------------------------

TO  556N@delphi.com:

Primarily I thought to use that kind of sensor thing connected to spaceship.
That is to make it more maneuverable and you can use it in many different
planets. I don't know about different orbits, but maybe you can shed some
light to that? The computers to be used should be at least TL 12 (max in RC).
One possibility could also be to have portable satellite downlink in landing
teams possession.

I'm using TNE rules. The initiative system is relatively good, but still
don't
give that kind of feeling that I am trying to get.

-----

And finally to all of you about speed of the brain signals. Okay, I admit 
that brain signals are SLOWER than those of the computer. 

But how about "moving your persona" to another computer and thus getting rid
of the slowness. Plus moving the battlefield to some neutral computer system
which is not infected and new to the Virus but one which decker knows inside
outside? If that would not give the decker an edge I don't know what can.

See ya!

Joni Virolainen
jonimv@evitech.fi


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 03:17:57 -0400
From: Seth "the Lesser" <slb22@columbia.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Alright, l right, all right... 
Message-ID: <199409080717.AA03870@mailhub.cc.columbia.edu>

Also sprach 556N@delphi.com (David Reed):
> [BTW, how "realistic"
> is the picture of little, proto-sentient chips hopping and hovering
> around looking for other little proto-sentients to imprint them-
> selves on?  Any ideas on true means of locomotion, power, etc.?
> It would take a tremendous amount of power and storage-capacitance
> to do some of the things that the Cymbeline chips are reputed to do.]

Well, it's either totally unrealistic or perfectly plausible; science has not
yet discovered which, only that it has to be one or the other.

More detail, you say? Well, there's a theorem of cybernetics/information
theory
which states that EITHER no program can accurately determine, in all cases,
what system it is running on OR a program can change the system it is running
on by executing the right sequence of instructions, no matter what that
system
is.  No one knows how such a program would be written, nor whether it is
possible.  Conventional computer science says that it is not.  TNE says that
it
is, and that the chips of Cymbeline developed it by evolution.

It seems at least vaguely plausible to me that creating the right pattern of
current densities in space and time could cause dopant atoms in semiconductor
junctions to migrate, changing the electrical properties of the circuit.
Brute
force ("a tremendous amount of power and storage capacitance") could be
replaced by subtlety.  Note that this only applies to computers of sufficient
size and storage capacity, since the theorem as stated is only literally true
for Turing machines, which have infinite storage by definition.  Thus, dumb
computers are immune.

Greg Bear made use of the same idea in the novel _Eternity_, in which a
character with sophisticated implanted computers downloads an enemy AI into
them, then is "possessed" when it circumvents his defense programming.

Hope this makes sense in a helpful sort of way.

--
Seth L. Blumberg, M.S.E.   |   Hundreds of monsters attacking people becomes
slb22@columbia.edu         |  boring.  Hundreds of monsters using non-violent
CUSFS President-in-Exile   |      protest techniques is darkly humorous.
walking the road of ashes  |    (Tim Beecher <timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com>)

------------------------------

Date: 08 Sep 94 03:42:41 EDT
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:traveller@mpgn.com" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Water use for fuel & catapults
Message-ID: <940908074241_100326.446_BHB47-1@CompuServe.COM>

>I think there would be lots of ecological problems with excessive use of
>planets water resources because as far as I know water of planets just
>recycle. I mean if you get one drop of water away from a planet, it is never
>replaced. I think this is the case at least in the quanties which are needed
>to operate starships.

If you design the star system using the Book 6 expansion system (or its'
descendants), you almost always get more worlds in the system with water.
Quite
often, you'll get one without population. What with that and ice asteroids
(and
gas giants of course) ships seldom have to dip from the oceans of a populated
world with a dodgy ecology. Also, the technology required to terraform worlds
to
the extent done in Traveller (I mean, some of these planets are simply
uninhabitable as written) could arrange some sort of replacement (perhaps a
rain
of ice asteroids - see short story by Arthur C Clarke). Now that would make a
good hiring ticket for a scientific party...

> Catapultam habeo.  Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum
> immane mittam.

Ave Caeser! Morituri te salutant!


   The War Dog.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 04:04:41 -0400
From: Seth "the Lesser" <slb22@columbia.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: water 
Message-ID: <199409080804.AA06256@mailhub.cc.columbia.edu>

Also sprach Joni M Virolainen:
> Fusion reactors are great! They don't pollute and use water as a source of
> power, it's almost miracle. But what happens to planets where is lots of
> interstellar traffic? How much water can be drained from a planet before
> it's hydrosphere alters?

An average planet (size 5, hydrographics 5) has 1.28E+14 square meters of
water
surface.  Therefore, it would take 1.28E+12 cubic meters of water loss to
lower
the water level by one centimeter.

Assuming that an average starship has 5000 cubic meters of fuel tankage, and
refills 26 times per year, it would take 9.85E+9 starship-years to lower the
water level by one centimeter, or 2.7 million starships per year over the
roughly 3500 years between now and Traveller.  Even a heavily-used port will
never see anything approximating this level of use.

Ergo, don't worry about it.

--
Seth L. Blumberg, M.S.E.   |   Hundreds of monsters attacking people becomes
slb22@columbia.edu         |  boring.  Hundreds of monsters using non-violent
CUSFS President-in-Exile   |      protest techniques is darkly humorous.
walking the road of ashes  |    (Tim Beecher <timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com>)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 04:34:29 -0400
From: Seth "the Lesser" <slb22@columbia.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Virus vs. deckers 
Message-ID: <199409080834.AA07651@mailhub.cc.columbia.edu>

Also sprach Quibell E D:
> 
>            (apart from the fact that GDW
> totaly forgot about fiberoptic light switching computers, which virus could
> infect but not hard wire it's self to, cos although they have silicon
(glass)
> it's not in the right form for the virus to live in .... no silicon
chips...)

As I explained in a previous post, assuming that Virus is based on the
appropriate theorems of cybernetics, it must be able to modify *any*
hardware--silicon, glass, flesh and blood, gears and pulleys--by executing
the
right sequence of instructions.  Under this interpretation, the Cymbeline
chips
are merely the hardware on which the Virus first evolved.

I think GDW could stand to explain this a little more clearly; a sidebar
going
into about as much detail as I just have wouldn't hurt.  (Are you listening,
Loren? :-)

--
Seth L. Blumberg, M.S.E.   |   Hundreds of monsters attacking people becomes
slb22@columbia.edu         |  boring.  Hundreds of monsters using non-violent
CUSFS President-in-Exile   |      protest techniques is darkly humorous.
walking the road of ashes  |    (Tim Beecher <timbee@timbee.rnd.symix.com>)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 94 09:18:15 CDT
From: "Peter H. Brenton" <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Virus vs. deckers
Message-ID: <9409081418.AA20553@biochem.uchicago.edu>

 Quibell E D <quibez@essex.ac.uk> wrote; 


>I'm sorry to say that we do know enough about this kind of technology to
make
>"reasonable" assumptions about how it would work. If you look into a
phsycology
>book you'll find nice electronic brain maps, showing which pit of the brain
>dose what. Artificial arms and hands can be maid to move using mussle
movement
>or electrical stimulation, and after a while the person only has to think
about
>picking something up and the artificial hand will pick it up, just like a
real
>one. This shows that a human can affectivly forget that they have an
artificial
>limb, showing that an interface attached to the brain, although somewaht
>different would still be excepted to be, and after a while, used with only a
>little thought .... Advances in Virtual Veality, paralle processing, object
>orientation and command interfaces which use the position of the eye as a
mouse> with no> keyboard commands means that we can have cyberspace NOW, as
long as
>someone sits down and writes it ... replace the VR interface with a neural
jack,
>and there we have it ...

Let's get something straightened out in this discussion.  I've seen a couple
of 
references to the virus getting "inside" the human brain (and fartzing around
in there, perhaps in our "unused" portion).

While possible (as anything is) I cannot see this happening at the Tech
levels of
TNE.  The Virus is limited to the electronic pathways of silicon and metal.
Any
movement outside this realm would require a different technology.

"Wait a minute" you say, "we're talking about 'jacking in' to your computer
and controlling it direct from the mind!".  

Lets look at this from the "Hard Science" perspective advocated by the above
poster.

Currently we can map electrical (Extremely low voltage) activity of the
firing
of neurons in our brains.  Experiments have been done by electrically
stimulating
certain areas of the brain.  These caused certain specific sensations or
recollections
in the test subjects, but the same sensation or recollection was not
repeatable.

At Some Point (my guess; TL 11) we will be able to control these direct
electrical 
stimulations to create the illusion of "cyberspace" popularized by Gibson et
al.  The
control of the emvironment thus created will be conducted (at TL11) by
eyeball movements,
and vocalization/subvocalization, and hand controllers.

The point is, nothing is "entering" the brain.  Carefully controlled
electrical 
stimulation is creating a "virtual illusion" of sorts in the user's mind's
eye.
control is not direct-from-brain, it *is* by methods more flexible than a
keyboard
("Keyboard, how quaint").

The virus could, upon occupying the deck, subject the character to all manner
of 
nightmarish images, sounds, smells, and perhaps even feelings.  I would
expect
this to be more effective for the virus than trying to electrocute the victim
since several safety "fuses" (or 21st century equiv.) exist between the deck
and
the "jack".

The most insidious and intelligent virus would make it look as though all is
well
(and that the character won whatever battle with the virus was being fought)
and 
sinply occupy the deck, altering the normal perceptions of the decker to what
the virus wanted him/her to see, until they got to a situation where the
virus'
action could kill them all off.

"I'm tapped into the complex's security net"

"Well, tell us how many guards are behind this door"

"The Scanner says they're all on the other side of the base, some kind of
emergency"

"Ok, open the door."  (door opens) "OH SHIT!" (Sounds of gunfire, rocket
fire, grenade
fire, fusion gun discharge, light & Heavy Machine guns, crew served
howitzers, etc.)

Actual brain-to-computer communication I would not allow until Psionics as a
science
(as opposed to psionics as a talent) was developed.  With the key to psionics
would
come the ability to communicate directly with the brain.

Pete

Peter Brenton        (312) 702-0030
Biochemistry & Molecular Biology pete@biochem.uchicago.edu
The University of Chicago 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 94 09:36:10 EST
From: dthompson@cel.cummins.com (Thompson)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Infection by Virus through DNI
Message-ID: <9409081436.AA25219@cel.cummins.com>

The TNE Virus plot complication is a very interesting idea. I was very
intrigued with the concept when my group first got involved with TNE. Then
I began to realize how totally impossible the Virus propagation examples
are: silicon based lifeforms rewriting the etched circuits. How could this
happen when Virus is transmitted as pure data?  How does the 'hardware'
component of Virus get across to the other system to re-etch the silicon?
What about gallium arsenide?  What about optical logic?

I have overcome these inconsistencies by remembering that Traveller is
science 'fiction'.  Ok.

Now, I have been reading all of this speculation about Virus infecting
people through direct neural interface.  There have been many ideas
expressed about how a person could combat Virus 'in its own environment'.
Here are my thoughts:

1) The most plausible idea expressed so far is that Virus would fry a
   person by sending a power surge directly through the interface and
   into their brain.

   This might be a likely outcome; however, a group of smart PCs could
   possible add a surge suppressor to the DNI link.  (Of course, Virus
   could send input into a brain which could cause the brain to overload
   itself, kind of like how epilepsy does).

As far as human infection by Virus goes:

2) It is either impossible for Virus to infect people or DNI would
   make no difference anyhow.

   Here is my argument: Virus can be propagated through ANY
   transmission medium. ANY!  (Remember Virus can infect a computer
   by encrypting itself onto printed matter and then unsuspecting
   people can scan that material into their computer and infect it).

   By this reasoning, people operating or communicating with an infected
   computer could become infected just by visual input from computer
   terminals, etc.

   DNI might provide a more efficient infection mechanism, but it is not
   necessary for people to become infected by Virus.

So either Virus cannot infect the brain or computer use of any kind is
extremely dangerous.  Since there is no indication that anyone has ever
become infected by Virus through these indirect means, then I submit it
as highly unlikely that the brain is susceptible to Virus infection.


Dale Thompson


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 10:34:16 -0500 (CDT)
From: ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu (Joseph Heck)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (TML Submissions)
Subject: Re: water
Message-ID: <9409081534.AA53271@showme.missouri.edu>

On Wed, 7 Sep 1994, Joni M Virolainen said:
> Fusion reactors are great! They don't pollute and use water as a source of
> power, it's almost miracle. But what happens to planets where is lots of
> interstellar traffic? How much water can be drained from a planet before
> it's hydrosphere alters? What kind of ecological problems that can arise?
> How do you think Schlli likes the idea that humans are draining Schalli's
> environment to use in humans machines?

Humm, maybe this isn't taking the long look on things (at least far enough),
but did you notice how much water it takes to power a fusion plant? The 
resources used are darn near negligable, at least compared to the amount of
"water" you could go through for reaction mass after splitting it down to
hydrogren.

Then there's always belt mining, gas giant skimming, or scrambling for 
water in Oort cloud. While the rules make this "not as feasible" for TNE
players, it's certainly a valid option, and you can bet the massive tankers
run stations around a gas giant and routinely skim for Hydrogen there to
create the reserves for the fuel resevoirs on planet.

Oh - my players have a 100ton scout that runs on 15kl of hydrogren a year.
Not much compared to the 210kl or so it takes for a jump that lasts
seven days... 

-- 
 joe                          (314) 882-5000
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    University of Missouri - Columbia  
 "with a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and
 impenetrable fog!" -- Calvin
 <A HREF="http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe">ccjoe</A>

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 15:50:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: alvin plummera <plummera@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Responce to GDW
Message-ID: <Pine.3.05.1.9409081544.A8043-d101000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>

--0-1005073222-779054119:#8043
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


(P.S.   Sorry Mr. Wiseman, but I deleted your original address in the letter
before I realised that I had the wrong address AGAIN!  Thus, the post in
TML.  I'll be more careful this time...)  

(P.P.S. ...and my, um, college has apparently zapped my ftp download
capasity; so I can't just grap a old copy!  AAARRRRGH!)

(P.P.P.S. As always, third-party comments are appreciated)
--0-1005073222-779054119:#8043
Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name=letter
Content-ID: <Pine.3.05.1.9409081519.B8043@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>
Content-Description: 



 The mail you sent could not be delivered;
 it was addressed to an unknown AOL user (gdw.games).
The text you sent follows...

<snip>

To: gdw.games@aol.com
Dear Mr. Wiseman...


First: Thanks for the correct address.

Second: An apology is in order regarding GDW's use of 'race/culture'.  I
        believe that I made some snide remark regarding 'tokens' that was
        later proven to be unjustified.  Sorry.


Now, regarding my list of 'improvements' to GDW's format...

      
>> Dear GDW:
>> Could you consider adding the following items to the basic
>> Traveller game...
>> A) Life Paths for PC's and NPC's?
 
> Bearing in mind that we will not be making any major revisions
> until the present print run (Mk1 Mod 1) runs out: Maybe. What do
> you mean by "life paths," and how do they differ from the current
> career sequence in TNE?
 
All right.  Basically, my beef is in the history of characters.  The
current history generation is excellent regarding skill generation, and
adequate with 'contacts' from the PC's previous carrer's.

However, I'm left wondering were are the PC's families, non-adventuring
friends, and their place in the 'social fabric' in society.  Who are their
enemies?  Do they have a 'family tradition' to uphold?  What are their
political biases?  Do they have a religious quest to pursue?  (I always
wanted to see a group of Vargr make the pilgrimage to Mecca from the
Regency...)

A case _can_ be made that the drives of the PC should be left to the
role-players, not to the dice.  I would respond that the role-players
could design the motives of the PC from scratch, and some (who are good at
character visualization) SHOULD do so.  But others (like me ;) would be
more pleased to generate a skeletion of the PC's soul, and build up from
there, rather than deal with a blank tablet.

Moreover, this 'life path' would discourage role-players from simply
making the PC 'themselves', just teleported to 5700 AD.  It would remind
them that this is a different man, in a different age.  The role-playing
experience would be made richer for it.

Admittedly, in a game of such wide scope as Traveller TNE, these things
can only be indicated in a generalized way.  Don't worry about it, leave
the universe-specific details to us....   The life-path system would at least
indicate that this is an area not to be overlooked.
 
 > > B) A way to generate quirks, neurosises and insanities, to 
 > > 'flesh out' characters?
 
 > Probably not. [...]

O.K.  Anyways, this could be built up via life-paths.  
(Incidentally, I have never seen a life path system, but I understand the
Idea, and could draw up one myself for posting on TML.  An idea there...)
 
> > C) A _good_ animal generator: i.e animals with shapes,
> > forms, habits and intersting behaviour patterns?
 
> You could do 100+ pages on something like this, and still not
> cover everything. We think the current animal generator does a
> very good job in the space we had available for it.
 
Understood.  

Just don't forget: some of us Travellers are explorers first.  While
there's -No Way- you could do the job justice in the main TML book, I
await eagerly for the day the job _is_ done properly.

(THAT supplement would be as eagerly sought as the World Builder's
Handbook/World Tamer's Guide, I bet!)

> > D) Expanding the animal-size table, so I can generate wales
 
> 44 tons _is_ a little small for a whale. I'll put this
> (expanded table results) on the list of things to cover in a
> Challenge article.
 
Hey! I made an --impact-- on how Traveller is Done!  WOW!

> > or [...] Sea- or Ocean-sized life forms? Or even the VERY
> > LARGE creatures that becomes possible in low-G worlds?
 
Incidentally, the below is spoken like a True Traveller Player...

> My personal opinion is that there can be no meaningful role-
> playing interaction between a human and an animal the size of an
> ocean. A creature that big could eat a spaceship (probably
> without noticing it) and there wouldn't be squat you could do
> about it (assuming such a creature were biologically
> feasible...there are certain limitations to how big an animal can
> get (plants are another matter, however: anybody remember the
> news clip about the county-sized fungus they found in Minnesota a
> couple of years ago? Of course, it could be debated that that
> wasn't really a single organism...)).

But, isn't the above what Traveller IS ALL ABOUT?

(For Explorer/Liaison types like me, of course.  I'm not speaking for the
Battlesuit Boys, Fleet Strategists or the Free Traders....)
    
> > Also, how about adding a new skill for Traveller -
> > Apprasial(EDU)?
> > This skill would come into play whenever characters need to
> > estimate the worth of an item or service.
> > (Especially good in barter situations)
 
> We consider this to be subsumed in the Bargaining Skill.
 
Just wanted to know....

> Re: Ship designs:
> > Sleep Tubes
 
> I don't remember these from the design sequence...must be a
> house rule. However, the notion of restricting Life support to a
> part of the ship is not forbidden...indeed, I have used it in the
> design of the Wildbat fighter.

Yep, Sleep Tubes - inspired by a Japanese hotel, which rent's out a box,
similar to the cabinets in a morgue, for people to sleep in for the night
- is a house rule, for ships too bloody small for a stateroom, but which
still have long-term missions.  I just cut the small stateroom stat's in
half for the numbers. (actually, I should cut them to 25%, considering the
space...)

(incidentally, the japanese have made these boxes quite comfortable, with
a padded mattress, a small T.V., and a small shelf too.  Hey, it's better
then a hamlock...)

Alvin Plummer
plummera@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 34
**************************
